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1 SCRANTON CITY COUNCIL MEETING
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5 HELD:
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7 Tuesday, October 6, 2009
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9 LOCATION:
10 Council Chambers
11 Scranton City Hall
12 340 North Washington Avenue
13 Scranton, Pennsylvania
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CATHENE S. NARDOZZI, RPR - OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
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2 CITY OF SCRANTON COUNCIL:
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MR. ROBERT MCGOFF, PRESIDENT
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6 MS. JUDY GATELLI, VICE-PRESIDENT
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MS. JANET E. EVANS
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9 MS. SHERRY FANUCCI
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MR. WILLIAM COURTRIGHT
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12 MS. KAY GARVEY, CITY CLERK
(Not present)
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MR. NEIL COOLICAN, ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
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15 MR. AMIL MINORA, SOLICITOR
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1 (Pledge of Allegiance recited and
2 moment of reflection observed.)
3 MR. MCGOFF: Roll call, please.
4 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Evans.
5 MS. EVANS: Here.
6 MR. COOLICAN: Mrs. Gatelli.
7 MS. GATELLI: Here.
8 MR. COOLICAN: Ms. Fanucci.
9 MS. FANUCCI: Here.
10 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. Courtright.
11 MR. COURTRIGHT: Here.
12 MR. COOLICAN: Mr. McGoff.
13 MR. MCGOFF: Here. Dispense with
14 the reading of the minutes. Third Order.
15 MR. MINORA: THIRD ORDER. REPORTS &
16 COMMUNICATIONS FROM MAYOR & HEADS OF
17 DEPARTMENTS AND INTERESTED PARTIES. 3-A.
18 AGENDA FOR THE ZONING HEARING BOARD MEETING
19 TO BE HELD ON OCTOBER 14, 2009.
20 MR. MCGOFF: Are there any comments?
21 If not, received and filed.
22 MR. MINORA: 3-B. PETITION FOR PERMIT
23 PARKING ON THE 100 AND 200 BLOCK OF SCHOOL
24 STREET.
25 MR. MCGOFF: Are there any comments?
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1 If not, received and filed.
2 MR. MINORA: There is nothing other
3 in Third Order reports.
4 MR. MCGOFF: Thank you.
5 Announcements from council?
6 MS. GATELLI: Yes, I just have two
7 small ones. On Saturday, October 24, there
8 will a benefit for Noah Severino DeSandis.
9 He was born in June at Moses Taylor Hospital
10 and he has congenital hypoventilation
11 syndrome known as Ondine's curses. It's a
12 respiratory disorder that's fatal if not
13 treated. He received a tracheotomy in July
14 and will need round-the-clock care and
15 nursing for years. The benefits has baskets
16 and 50/50's at the Tripp Park Community
17 Center. Adults $15, children $5. Food and
18 beverages will be served, and that's from 3
19 to 7.
20 Also, on Saturday, October 24 from 4
21 to 7, there will be the annual rigatoni
22 dinner at the Dante Club in South Scranton.
23 Tickets are $8.50 for adults, $4 for
24 children and they will have raffles, and
25 truly they have the best macaroni in town.
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1 I'm prejudiced, but I speak the truth. As
2 an Italian, I know my spaghetti. If I don't
3 know about anything else --
4 MS. EVANS: Actually, I think it's
5 the sauce. It's their secret sauce.
6 MS. GATELLI: Yes. So, that is
7 October 24 from 4 to 7, and that's all I
8 have. Thank you.
9 MR. MCGOFF: Mrs. Evans?
10 MS. EVANS: Thank you. Saints Peter
11 and Paul Roman Catholic Church, 1309 West
12 Locust Street in Scranton will hold a fall
13 festival and bazaar October 11 in the church
14 hall from 11:30 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. The
15 festival will feature ethnic Polish foods
16 such as potato pancakes, piggies and haluski
17 as well as theme baskets, children's stands
18 and baked goods.
19 Dine at Friendly's in Dunmore on
20 Wednesday, October 14 from 5 to 8 p.m.
21 Proceeds will benefit the St. Francis of
22 Assisi Food Kitchen. Because of your
23 generosity, last year the Interfaith
24 Friend's Committee was able to donate over
25 $6,000 to the food kitchen. Many people
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1 were fed because of your support. As we
2 face the winter months you can make a
3 difference and feed the needy.
4 Channel 61, government access, has
5 been changed to Channel 19. Channel 62,
6 education access, has been changed to
7 Channel 21 effective Monday, October 5.
8 St. Anthony's Church on Wood Street
9 in Scranton is holding a pasta dinner
10 tomorrow, Wednesday, and Thursday, October 8
11 from 5 to 8 p.m. Tickets are $9 for adults
12 and $4 for children under ten and are
13 available at the door.
14 An Octoberfest 2009 fundraiser will
15 be conducted at the Parker House Cafe, 12
16 East Parker Street, Scranton, on October 17
17 from 7 to 10 p.m. Tickets are $10 and are
18 available at the door. All proceeds benefit
19 the James M. Lynett speech and debate
20 invitational tournament. Celebrate at
21 Octoberfest and support a great cause.
22 And lastly, a dear friend is
23 hospitalized at this time and, Mr. Fenton, I
24 wish you very speedy recovery and I ask that
25 all of you would remember Mr. Fenton in your
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1 prayers. And that's all.
2 MR. COURTRIGHT: Mr. McGoff, I have
3 one announcements and then I have these
4 questions and answers that we promised we
5 would read off here. Boy Scout Troop 16,
6 435 Hickory Street, Presbyterian Church is
7 having their annual spaghetti dinner and
8 that will October 17 from 4 to 7 p.m. and
9 the cost will be $8.00 for adults and $4 for
10 children.
11 A few weeks back there was questions
12 about JAG grants in the police department
13 that have been asked of council, and I said
14 that we would either get the grant writer in
15 here or something to that effect and it was
16 determined that I don't think she was very
17 comfortable coming in here, so we asked her
18 some questions and she responded. I was out
19 of town a week ago and that's why we were
20 late getting back to -- I had some people
21 call me and ask me why I didn't read them,
22 but I didn't read them because I wasn't
23 here. I was here last week, but the week
24 prior I wasn't, and I just got them, so if
25 you bear with me it's going it take a little
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1 bit of time and we are not trying to hide
2 anything, if anybody wants a copy of the
3 questions and the answers I will be happy to
4 give them to you after the meeting, but
5 please just bear with me. It's going to
6 take a little bit of time and I apologize.
7 Number one -- and these questions
8 were asked of the part-time grant writer for
9 the City of Scranton. She is full-time for
10 the county. "Who hired you as a part-time
11 grant writer for the City of Scranton? What
12 is your initial date of employment in this
13 part-time position and who is your direct
14 supervisor as a part-time grant writer for
15 the City of Scranton?"
16 And her answer was, "Chief Elliott
17 hired me a part-time grant writer with the
18 Scranton Police Department. My initial date
19 of employment I believe was in 2003. I was
20 first contracted then. Mr. Bell was out on
21 medical leave and that is when I got hired.
22 My direct supervisor is Dave Elliott.
23 Question number two, "Who directed
24 you to submit the 2008 grant application?
25 Who directed you to submit the 2009 grant
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1 application?"
2 "Chief Elliott directed me to
3 submitted the 2008 grant application. Chief
4 Elliott directed me to submit the 2009 grant
5 application."
6 "Did you inform Chief Elliott that
7 the 2008 grant application was completed and
8 ready for submission? Did you inform Chief
9 Elliott that the 2009 JAG grant application
10 was complete and ready for submission?"
11 Her answer is, "Yes, I did inform
12 Chief Elliott when the 2008 JAG grant
13 application was completed, and I submitted a
14 copy to him within that week. Yes, I did
15 inform Chief Elliott when the 2009 JAG grant
16 application was completed and I submitted a
17 copy to him within that week."
18 Question four, "Did you believe that
19 the 2008 JAG grant application was submitted
20 to the Scranton City Council? Did you
21 believe that the 2009 JAG grant application
22 was submitted to Scranton City Council? If
23 so, who informed of either or both were
24 presented to Scranton City Council?"
25 Her answer is, "Yes, I did believe
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1 that the 2008 JAG grant application was
2 submitted to Scranton City Council. Yes, I
3 did believe that the 2009 JAG grant
4 application was submitted to Scranton City
5 Council. No one ever informed me that both
6 were or were not presented. Once I informed
7 Chief Elliott that they needed to go in
8 front of council 30 days prior to the grant
9 act was due. I thought they went through
10 and I was never told anything different.
11 After Chief Elliott received copies of the
12 '08 and '09 JAG grant applications."
13 Question number five, "Was Chief
14 Elliott aware that you submitted either or
15 both 2008 and 2009 grant applications
16 without legislation having been sent to
17 Scranton City Council?"
18 "Chief Elliott received copies of
19 the '08 and '09 JAG grant application within
20 the week of submission of each grant, so if
21 he received these grant applications he
22 would see that they did or did not go before
23 Scranton City Council on the scheduled
24 marked days."
25 Question number six, "Were you aware
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1 at any time from the date of your hiring to
2 the date on which you submitted 2009 JAG
3 grant applications that 2008 and 2009 JAG
4 grant applications were never presented to
5 Scranton City Council and the public?"
6 Her response is, "The first time I
7 was ever made aware of the 2008 and '9 JAG
8 grant applications not being presented to
9 Scranton City Council was when Mary Theresa
10 Patterson, who is the city solicitor, and
11 Stu Renda made Chief Elliott and myself
12 aware in 2009."
13 A couple more. "Were you aware that
14 no special account was opened in 2008 by the
15 City of Scranton in which to receive the
16 electronic transfers in JAG grant monies?
17 If so, on what date did you become aware and
18 who informed you of this?"
19 "No, I was not aware, but there is a
20 JAG account already setup and I believe that
21 all JAG grant goes into that account. I was
22 made aware of this in July by Stu Renda when
23 the grants never went to council."
24 Question eight, "Did you at any time
25 tell Chief Elliott to present the JAG grant
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1 applications and/or approval of JAG grant
2 applications to Scranton City Council? If
3 so, when did you tell Chief Elliott to do
4 so? What was Chief Elliott's response?"
5 Her answer is, "Yes, I informed
6 Chief Elliott on April 2, 2008, to attend
7 the Scranton City Council meeting that
8 following Tuesday for approval for the 2009
9 JAG grant applications. I do not remember
10 the exact date of the 2008 JAG grant
11 applications when I informed the chief, but
12 it was definitely 30 days before the JAG
13 grant was due. Chief Elliott's response
14 from my question not was, 'Not a problem.'"
15 Question number nine, "Is Chief
16 Elliott correct in stating that you
17 unfamiliar with the council process of
18 approving grants as printed in the
19 September 12, 2009, edition of the Scranton
20 Times-Tribune? Is Chief Elliott correct in
21 stating that you thought he had acquired
22 approval? If so, how did you arrive at that
23 conclusion?"
24 The answer, "Chief Elliott was
25 incorrect in stating that I was unfamiliar
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1 with the process of approving grants since
2 he has a copy of the grants. I believe
3 council was made aware of all grants. Yes,
4 Chief Elliott is correct in stating that I
5 thought he had acquired approval. I arrived
6 at that conclusion because once Chief
7 Elliott received the copies of these grants
8 I was never aware that he did not attend
9 these meetings so in my eyes he attended the
10 meetings."
11 "Do you believe that Chief Elliott
12 is familiar with the grant process? Explain
13 your response."
14 "I believe Chief Elliott is familiar
15 with the process of pursuing grant
16 opportunities in speaking with the mayor to
17 discuss grant opportunity and informing me
18 as to what we are applying for, but what I
19 have seen and heard from Chief Elliott is he
20 feels that the only time a grant needs to go
21 before council is when it is approved. I
22 made it very clear to him for the 2008-2009
23 JAG grants it was made clear by the
24 Department of Justice in the RFP for the
25 grants and that needed to go in front of
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1 council 30 days before the grant was due."
2 There is only two more, hang in
3 there. Question 11, "Have you ever compared
4 the quarterly financial reports for the
5 Scranton Police Department? If yes, when
6 and did you continue to do so? If you no
7 longer perform this duty, who currently
8 performs the quarterly financial reports for
9 Chief Elliott? When are these reports due
10 to the government and are there any
11 penalties for late filings? If so, what are
12 the penalties?"
13 I did some financial reports when I
14 first started helping with Tom Bell and to
15 do them starting July 2008 until May of
16 2009. I would ask Chief Elliott the status
17 of money spent during each quarter. I no
18 longer do these reports. I have since given
19 them to Chief Elliott and he is the one
20 currently doing them as far as I know. They
21 are due every few months from the start of
22 the grant so each grant varies. If it
23 violated the DOJ, Department of Justice,
24 that is, will send an e-mail reminder to get
25 it filed, otherwise, money cannot be drawn
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1 down."
2 Last question, "Are you responsible
3 for submitting requests to the Scranton City
4 solicitor and/or the law department of the
5 City of Scranton for any type of JAG grant
6 application legislation to be submitted to
7 Scranton City Council?"
8 "I am not responsible for submitting
9 requests to Scranton City solicitor and/or
10 the law department of the City of Scranton
11 for any type of JAG grant legislation to be
12 submitted to Scranton City Council. It
13 would be Chief Elliott's responsibility."
14 They are all of the questions that
15 we put together and they were the answers.
16 It's been so long since we started this
17 process, I actually forget what we said we
18 would do. I believe, and the rest of
19 council correct me if I'm wrong, that once
20 we got all of the questions and all of the
21 answers that maybe we would discuss it and
22 recommend some kind of action if need be.
23 Is that what we said? It's been several
24 weeks.
25 MS. FANUCCI: I think that was it.
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1 MR. COURTRIGHT: So council has all
2 of the questions and the answers, so I guess
3 maybe we will have to discuss it in our next
4 meeting and in caucus and then if a
5 suggestion is to be made I guess we would
6 vote on it. I don't know how we would work
7 that. I can't recall what we said in the
8 beginning, but I certainly don't want to go
9 back on what we said. Does council have any
10 questions from me? That's it. Thank you.
11 MR. MCGOFF: One last announcement,
12 the exit audit -- or the exit audit or the
13 exit report for the independent audit the
14 dates are being set. I was asked which of
15 two dates was, you know, available -- or I
16 was available for which I was available.
17 It's probably going to be either Tuesday,
18 October 13 or Wednesday, October 14 for the
19 exit -- the exit report I guess, and once
20 that's established I will let people know
21 what the outcome of that may be, and that is
22 all. Citizens' participation. Shelly McCue
23 and might I assume you are Luke Kozlanski.
24 MR. KOZLANSKI: Yes.
25 MR. MCGOFF: Please, both of you.
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1 MR. KOZLANSKI: I'm not sure, but she
2 wanted to have Phyllis put on the list to
3 speak.
4 MS. FANUCCI: She speaks, don't
5 worry.
6 MR. KOZLANSKI: I'm Luke Kozlanski.
7 This is Shelley McCue. We are members -- or
8 I'm a member of the Scranton Reads
9 Committee. She is cochair and --
10 MS. FANUCCI: We couldn't hear what
11 you said.
12 MR. KOZLANSKI: Oh, I'm sorry.
13 MS. FANUCCI: Just so that people --
14 MR. KOZLANSKI: We are members of
15 the Scranton Reads Committee, she is
16 actually cochair. We wanted to take this
17 opportunity to talk to you a little bit
18 about it for those of who are unaware of it,
19 for those of who are aware and hopefully we
20 reach some people on the broadcast.
21 Basically, Scranton Reads has been
22 going on since 2002, and every year the
23 council picks a book and we try to schedule
24 a series of events around it and encourage
25 the community to read it, to get involved
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1 and, you know, for enlightenment, personal
2 satisfaction, and to just encourage reading.
3 This year, we have received a big
4 read grant for the third time which allows
5 us to do some larger budget things and we
6 have chosen the book "The Things They Carry"
7 by Tim O'Brien, which I'm not sure if any of
8 you have read it or how aware you are of the
9 program, but it's a remarkable book about an
10 infantryman's experiences in Vietnam. It
11 delves into the nature of story telling, the
12 power of fiction to convey the experiences
13 that he had there, the loneliness upon
14 returning, and it seems especially relevant
15 as many our servicemen experiencing various
16 similar conditions today.
17 We will be having Tim O'Brien come
18 to speak at a tent pole event later this
19 month on October 29 at 7:00 p.m. at
20 Marywood, and we encourage council members
21 to come, encourage anybody we know who would
22 like -- or who would enjoy such an event and
23 any members of the public. There is a whole
24 series of things and Shelly will tell you
25 about them that are coming up.
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1 MS. MCCUE: We have a whole
2 month-long series of events including many
3 book discussions at all of the libraries
4 within Lackawanna County as well as some
5 local businesses like Anthology Book Store
6 and Starbucks on Montage Mountain, and we
7 are also having on-line book discussions
8 this month for anyone who is unable to
9 attend in person you can visit our website
10 ScrantonReads.org to get a link to the
11 on-line book discussion as well as links to
12 all of our other events. And we are also
13 having weekly film festival at 6:00 p.m. on
14 Thursdays in the community room of the
15 children's library and this Thursday we are
16 going to be showing the movie "Coming Home"
17 with Jon Voight.
18 And the library has many copies of
19 the book available for you to check out, but
20 we also have copies for the council people
21 if we can bring them up? Is that okay?
22 MR. MCGOFF: Please.
23 MS. FANUCCI: It is wonderful
24 program, it really is, and I hope that the
25 turn out is even better this year.
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1 MR. KOZLANSKI: It's been pretty
2 strong so far.
3 MS. FANUCCI: Yeah, it's been doing
4 really well. That's great.
5 MR. KOZLANSKI: The book discussions,
6 you know, everyone seems to get a little bit
7 something different from the book because of
8 it's unique style and we think the public
9 will really enjoy it.
10 MS. FANUCCI: I look forward to
11 reading it. Thank you.
12 MS. MCCUE: And that's
13 ScrantonReads.org if you have any other
14 questions or need extra information. Thank
15 you.
16 MR. MCGOFF: Thank you very much.
17 Mike Dudek.
18 MR. DUDEK: My name is a Mike Dudek,
19 608 Depot Street here in the city. I live
20 in the Plot. I'm very sorry that I wasn't
21 quicker on the uptake last week. If I had
22 known that we were going to have our gun
23 group from Luzerne County here I would have
24 changed topics completely. I do want to
25 address some of the concerns they have
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1 raised.
2 Second Amendment issues aren't
3 really all that difficult because Second
4 Amendment issues are really devolved into
5 the states and Pennsylvania really covers
6 most of it. The question these people raise
7 is whether or not you have the right to make
8 any rules whatsoever. Oh, yes, you do.
9 Yes, you do.
10 One thing is clear, the National
11 Rifle Association and similar groups are
12 very much alike, very similar to many of the
13 Gay Rights organizations in this country in
14 two respects: Just as the gun people like
15 to flaunt their guns, the gays like to
16 flaunt their life-style. They are in your
17 face about it. That's one thing, one area
18 of similarity, but it's the second area of
19 similarity that's a very grave concern.
20 These people have tons of money and they
21 have no problem at all starting frivolous
22 lawsuits against municipalities whenever a
23 municipality wants to pass a reasonable
24 piece of legislation.
25 My understanding and my teaching of
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1 many years of the Second Amendment shows me
2 that your legislation was very reasonable
3 and should pass and should stand. In other
4 words, I stand squarely with Mr. McGoff in
5 his interpretation of what's going on and I
6 believe that Mr. McGoff is right on the mark
7 with this, okay? If you pass any kind of
8 reasonable gun legislation you are going to
9 get sued. That's the way these people are.
10 You are going to win, there is no doubt
11 about it, it's just a matter of -- it's a
12 matter of intimidation on the part of groups
13 like this. They simply want to intimidate.
14 Now, I am not going to tell you
15 whether or not I own a gun. If anybody
16 wants to become my home invader let him find
17 out soon enough. That is my personal
18 business. Now, the person who spoke for the
19 group last week made the most outrageous
20 contradictions I have ever heard. He stood
21 here and said if he had his gun stolen he
22 would report it and he called it common
23 sense to report it and then he turns around
24 to defend the right of somebody not to
25 report a stolen gun. We had a murder here
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1 in this city that was gang related. The gun
2 that was used was stolen from a state
3 trooper's home up in Blakely. We have an
4 obligation to see to it that guns are to be
5 reported stolen or missing within 48 hours
6 of finding out about it because of
7 situations exactly like what we had here in
8 this city. The police need to know this.
9 This is something for the protection of our
10 officers. That is very reasonable.
11 Communities of this state have various
12 reporting times 24, 48 or 72 hours, we are
13 considering 48 and they are coming up here
14 to say, "We are going to sue you on this."
15 There is at least 12 other communities in
16 the state that already have laws that are
17 already on the books.
18 Now, as to the second part of this,
19 the Scranton Times unfairly criticized you.
20 They were right, but they didn't give you
21 the reason why. The portion of the bill
22 that you want to put in saying that you
23 can't discharge a firearm in the City of
24 Scranton, there is case law on this. About
25 25 years ago a priest in Pittsburgh,
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1 Pennsylvania, was asleep in his rectory.
2 Somebody broke into the rectory. He knew he
3 was supposed to be the only one there so he
4 got his gun. He came down the steps, he saw
5 what looked like to him was a shadow and
6 something lunging toward him and the priest
7 fired and, unfortunately, killed a person.
8 The priest did the following:
9 He called 911 for the ambulance, for
10 the police and he gave the man the last
11 rites and the sacrament of penance. That's
12 about all he could do. The District
13 Attorney in Allegheny County prosecuted the
14 priest on second degree murder, involuntary
15 manslaughter, discharge of a gun, a whole
16 laundry list of charges. The priest was
17 exonerated on each and every one of them, so
18 with the discharge of a weapon in the City
19 of Scranton there is common sense to it,
20 absolutely yes, pass the law, but also let's
21 understand that if a person discharges the
22 gun in his home to protect his family and
23 himself in the same circumstance that priest
24 did in Pittsburgh case law there also
25 exists. I don't think you have any problem
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1 passing any part of this. Thank you.
2 MR. MCGOFF: Bob Bolus.
3 MR. BOLUS: Good evening, Council.
4 Bob Bolus, Scranton. What I'd like to talk
5 to you about first is, I brought it up many
6 times about the leachate line, runs from
7 Dunmore through Scranton. I think we all
8 know the situation in Dunmore, I was at
9 their council meeting the last one they had
10 and spoke at it. There is also the gas line
11 going from Alliance Landfill all the way up
12 through the area. I don't see any reason in
13 the world why this council can't create
14 legislation to make us a host community
15 along with the cooperation of Dunmore to try
16 and pull everybody out of this hole once and
17 for all.
18 Keep in mind, you go to a gas
19 station, they raise the gas five cents a
20 gallon, you are going to pay the five cents
21 a gallon no matter who the provider is.
22 There is no difference on what you are going
23 to do with this gas line. Forget who owns
24 it or who controls it, all you have to do
25 now is drive along Interstate 81 and drive
26
1 along the mountainside in Dunmore and see
2 all the cars that are now going back out on
3 the mountain. They should have been removed
4 years ago when a permit was offered to
5 DeNaples to open on Mill Street that no cars
6 would be on that mountain.
7 That affects all of us. It's not
8 about Dunmore in person or Scranton, it
9 affects everybody in this county plus the
10 people traveling here and it's time the city
11 gets behind the people and starts sending
12 letters out that we want that stuff removed.
13 It was removed once, you don't have a right
14 to have it there. Let's keep the area what
15 it's supposed to be prosperous. It doesn't
16 look like that way anymore.
17 You need to get with Dunmore, you
18 need to start working forward, but what you
19 need to do is start being in the second
20 position on any mortgage or loans. You stay
21 in the first position, if a person is strong
22 enough to get a loan, the bank will take a
23 second position. We get our money first,
24 they fail, too bad. But enough on the
25 taxpayers and it's got to stop and stop now.
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1 You can't sit here and say we know this one
2 or that one. It's about the people in this
3 city. We are broke, we can't pay our bills
4 and we need to take a strong hard look at
5 what we are doing here and what you have
6 been doing now has not been the right road
7 to follow.
8 I was appalled last week when I saw
9 these clowns, whatever you want to call
10 them, come in here with firearms. This is a
11 public building. They sure in heck weren't
12 go over to the federal building and go
13 marching in over there, why in God's name
14 were they permitted in this building.
15 And, Mr. McGoff, I'm going to direct
16 this to you because you are council
17 president, unfortunately. When that took
18 place you should have adjourned this meeting
19 and immediately went downstairs, posted the
20 front door with "No Weapons Allowed" and
21 then reconvened the meeting. You were
22 outgunned 12 to 1 here. Even Bill
23 Courtright couldn't defend himself here with
24 the amount of people that came here in
25 weapons. We had one police officer in the
28
1 back here. You think he was going to be
2 able to sustain order if something erupted
3 here?
4 MR. MCGOFF: There were two
5 policemen.
6 MR. BOLUS: It doesn't make a
7 difference, 12 to 2 is not the odds I would
8 want to be in, and if you have ever been
9 anywhere where you were shot at or something
10 you would understand what I'm talking about.
11 We have people in combat right now that are
12 being killed everyday. Weapons are a
13 danger. The people carrying them have a
14 right to carry them if they are permitted,
15 they don't have a right in this building. I
16 don't care who they are or who the heck they
17 think they are, they should have never
18 walked in this building. They wanted to act
19 like clowns go outside and do it, but don't
20 come in and embarrass the Scrantonians that
21 we are trying to intimidate people by
22 walking in here and saying, "I'll carry my
23 firearm everywhere I want to."
24 You need to take a firm action and,
25 yes, if it's stolen it should be reported, I
29
1 don't care who you are. Because if it's
2 stolen and you don't report it you could
3 become an accessory to the crime that's
4 committed. It's for your own well-being as
5 well as the people out here. You keep in
6 mind, we had a screening device downstairs,
7 remember everybody was outraged? People
8 wanted to tear this building apart because
9 they had to be screened and come in here and
10 you let all of these characters stand in the
11 back room here with firearms on?
12 I mean, seriously. I'm really
13 concerned about the judgment of that day.
14 When I came back, I was out town, and I saw
15 that I couldn't believe what I saw in here.
16 I even called Steve Corbett up and spoke to
17 him about it because it's wrong. It doesn't
18 belong here.
19 MS. FANUCCI: Actually, I believe
20 Steve did bring -- wanted to -- was for
21 carrying guns into city hall at one time
22 when he first came on because I remember
23 that was the big issues.
24 MR. BOLUS: Should have been in here
25 and that's our rules, not their rules. They
30
1 may have a constitutional right outside the
2 building, they don't have it in here. The
3 only reason I came here tonight was to bring
4 that as an issue because it's going to come
5 up here again, but this time enforce it.
6 Stay out there, and again, I don't think we
7 even need the police officer here, they
8 belong out on the street protecting us out
9 there not in here, not after what I saw the
10 last time. Thank you.
11 MR. MCGOFF: Joe Dwyer.
12 MR. DWYER: Good evening, members of
13 City Council, concerned city taxpayers. I
14 wish to speak tonight about the working poor
15 homeless situation in our city. This week I
16 went around to several of the encampments
17 and what I saw is a travesty of what we are
18 allowing to continue to go on in this
19 community. There are so many people who are
20 working and do not have a place to call
21 home. They are living in tarps, and living
22 in tents, they are living in boxes, they are
23 living in cars, they are living in anything
24 that they can put together to call a place
25 home. These are working moms with kids.
31
1 When I was in one encampment I saw pictures
2 of babies, I saw letters, I saw kid's toys.
3 When I went and I asked somebody in
4 the leadership position if we could take
5 over a blighted home to house single girls,
6 they tore my house to the ground. That is
7 not right. The leadership of this community
8 needs to rise up and take a stand.
9 MS. FANUCCI: We couldn't put anyone
10 in a blighted --
11 MS. GATELLI: Excuse me --
12 MS. FANUCCI: -- a house that's been
13 already condemned.
14 MR. DWYER: We would rehabilitate
15 that house.
16 MS. GATELLI: Wait, wait. I just
17 want to ask a question, you are telling me
18 that there is babies and children that are--
19 MR. DWYER: Yes.
20 MS. GATELLI: -- living -- well, why
21 aren't you reporting this to Children and
22 Youth Services?
23 MS. DWYER: Because we know what
24 will happen and that's not the point.
25 MS. GATELLI: Yes. They should be
32
1 taken away from the parents that are
2 allowing them to be housed --
3 MS. DWYER: No. No. You are so
4 grossly wrong.
5 MS. GATELLI: Oh, no, I don't approve
6 of children being homeless.
7 MR. DWYER: It doesn't matter what
8 you approve of, what you're approving is
9 this travesty to exist.
10 MS. GATELLI: No, I disagree with
11 you. There are shelters for women and
12 children.
13 MR. DWYER: When the Office of
14 Community Development takes and buys a
15 blighted condemned home that's about to be
16 raised and pays $185,000 for it, puts
17 another $95,000 into that house and turns
18 around and sells it for $95,000, that's
19 ridiculous.
20 MS. GATELLI: There are homes for
21 homeless mothers with children.
22 MR. DWYER: There are four homes in
23 this community, only four, and they aren't
24 that many beds.
25 MS. GATELLI: And there are
33
1 shelters.
2 MR. DWYER: There are shelters that
3 are full. There is only two shelters for
4 girls, for women. There is not a --
5 MS. GATELLI: Well, if I find out
6 where those children are I will call
7 Children Services. That's not for --
8 MR. DWYER: There is not enough
9 housing availability for anybody in this
10 community who is homeless. The Times, the
11 Scranton Times, did an interview of people
12 living across in the river, the Lackawanna
13 river, and they spoke about this gentleman
14 who is doing a social experiment, and his
15 comment was he wanted to see if he could
16 survive in the woods. A typical mom is not
17 trying to live in the woods. She wants a
18 place to call home. She goes out to work
19 everyday and she goes back to that place.
20 MS. GATELLI: Tell her to go to
21 Catholic Social Services, 500 -- -
22 MR. DWYER: Have you been there?
23 Have you been there?
24 MS. GATELLI: No.
25 MR. DWYER: You should go there.
34
1 MS. GATELLI: Thank God I don't need
2 to go there.
3 MR. DWYER: And they will tell you
4 that they are full.
5 MR. COURTRIGHT: Sir, can I ask you a
6 question?
7 MS. GATELLI: No, I don't buy that.
8 I really don't buy that.
9 MR. DWYER: I'm not selling it to
10 you.
11 MS. GATELLI: I don't buy it.
12 MR. DWYER: Call them up.
13 MS. GATELLI: That people are living
14 with children homeless. Don't they go to
15 school?
16 MR. DWYER: Reverend Cathryn Simmons
17 from the AME Church will tell you. Reverend
18 Bill Simms -- or Schultz from the Scranton
19 Rescue Mission will tell you. Sister Mary
20 Alice from Friends of the Poor will tell you
21 how bad the situation it. This is nothing
22 new. To last year the mayor had 200 people
23 belongings thrown into the river and
24 threatened them with incarceration if they
25 went and retrieved their property, and told
35
1 them if they didn't leave that they would go
2 to jail, offered them one-way tickets out of
3 town.
4 MR. COURTRIGHT: Sir, let me ask you
5 one question, could I, please?
6 MR. DWYER: Yes.
7 MR. COURTRIGHT: I have been to what
8 is loosely known as tent city here and I
9 have been up and down the whole thing
10 recently, and I only saw one female, I saw
11 no children, so they are not down there,
12 correct?
13 MR. DWYER: There are some people --
14 it's not just --
15 MR. COURTRIGHT: I think maybe you
16 need to tell us. Why don't you tell us --
17 MR. DWYER: I will not tell you where
18 they are.
19 MR. COURTRIGHT: -- off the air, off
20 the air, where these children are and maybe
21 we can help them.
22 MR. DWYER: No, I won't do that.
23 MR. COURTRIGHT: But then how are we
24 going to help them?
25 MR. DWYER: By making these homes
36
1 available for these nonprofit
2 organizations--
3 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'm talking the
4 immediate time right now they need help.
5 MR. DWYER: They do.
6 MR. COURTRIGHT: If there is children
7 living in tents or boxes like you are
8 saying, I think you need to tell us and
9 maybe we could help them.
10 MR. DWYER: So they can experience
11 the same thing that they have experienced in
12 the past.
13 MR. COURTRIGHT: What they are
14 experiencing now according to you isn't
15 good.
16 MR. DWYER: Well, yes, and well
17 there are -- and the reason why I'm here is
18 for people in the community to open up their
19 homes and let some people stay there and
20 they have.
21 Also, I'd like to bring to the
22 communities' attention that Pax Christy is
23 having a workshop on racism October 4 and
24 Lackawanna College lyceum. It will be at
25 8:30 in the morning. Thank you very much
37
1 for your time.
2 MR. MCGOFF: Andy Sbaraglia.
3 MR. SBARAGLIA: Andy Sbaraglia.
4 Citizen of Scranton, fellow Scrantonian.
5 This gentleman brought up a real problem
6 inside of the city. I believe someone up
7 there should be appointed to check it out.
8 Really you should. Winter is coming and
9 it's going to get cold out there, and like I
10 said before, I don't know how many people
11 lost their homes, I really don't know. A
12 lot of people are being forced out of their
13 properties. A lot of them can't -- well,
14 you know that, you read it in the paper.
15 You don't even have to look surprised. They
16 are being forced out of their homes. You
17 saw page after page in the newspaper. I
18 showed you many times that page, but we have
19 to look at home more.
20 I always said charity begins at
21 home. To me that's the place where it
22 begins, Scranton is our home. To have that
23 happen in Scranton if it does happen is a
24 shame upon all of us. We all must bear that
25 burden.
38
1 Like I said, I had a lot of deals, I
2 know there is lot of money being held up
3 down there by the budget. I don't know how
4 much of that money, money that is being held
5 is contributing to what he said. If it is
6 it's even more imperative to us to check on
7 both places down in Harrisburg and on our
8 streets. Surely we have room somewhere if
9 that condition exists with these people.
10 Because you know and I know what's
11 happening right now is going to continue for
12 another year, if not longer, and there is no
13 way out of it. We are getting worse and
14 worse. We are going to be -- they keep
15 saying we are going to be over 10 percent
16 and Scranton is pretty close to that now,
17 where people out of work and, like I say, I
18 was going to talk on some of this stuff, but
19 it's not important. This stuff isn't really
20 important at all.
21 I mean, all it is is transfer money
22 here, there, a few dollars here or there,
23 somebody gave us a piece of land, big deal,
24 but this is a big deal and it's a deal
25 it's-- like I said, we all should hang our
39
1 heads if this is true. There is nobody --
2 Scranton has always been the friendly city.
3 Always, always, always. We have always
4 looked after our own. We got plenty of
5 empty buildings, maybe some aren't the best,
6 some are this, some are that, but we have a
7 lot.
8 We have a lot of churches that are
9 being closed that are still in heatable
10 condition. All we have to do is open them
11 up and turn them into shelters and maybe put
12 some kind of -- most of them have kitchen
13 because they are all -- but even that's a
14 use for the churches rather than ripping
15 them down, but somewhere along the line
16 really somebody has to look into this,
17 either the police when they see it have to
18 report it in and then we got agencies, maybe
19 they don't have the money to do their job
20 now, but all of the churches outside of the
21 agencies, that's what they should be doing.
22 That's what they should be doing. That's
23 the most important part of all religion is
24 giving and if you can't give you are not
25 religious.
40
1 I don't want to say anything about
2 the priests, but we gave him a lot of money,
3 he sent to money to Philadelphia. I always
4 said our soup kitchens, our places, the
5 money should be sent here, I always said
6 that. Charity begins at home and this is
7 our home. Thank you.
8 MR. MCGOFF: Joe Talimini.
9 MR. TALIMINI: Joe Talimini. I just
10 have three things tonight. Number one,
11 Mr. Courtright, you say according to what
12 you read Chief Elliott has been in -- it's a
13 case of gross negligent if nothing else. Is
14 that what it indicates to you? I'm not
15 trying to put you on the spot, but, I mean,
16 you've got the facts in front of you?
17 Either the man is responsible or he is not
18 responsible.
19 MR. COURTRIGHT: I think he is
20 responsible.
21 MR. TALIMINI: Well, then if he is
22 responsible and he did not comply, don't you
23 think it's time we did something? Because
24 this happens throughout this city not only
25 with the chief of police but with other
41
1 agency directors, superintendents or
2 directors of authorities, etcetera. I think
3 an investigation is necessary in this case.
4 MR. COURTRIGHT: Well, I think that's
5 kind of what we did was a little bit of
6 investigation and, you know, because I
7 believe what we had agreed upon in the past
8 was that we would see what we found and make
9 a recommendation and I would hope whatever
10 recommendation was arrived at would be
11 arrived at unanimously, and unfortunately,
12 unfortunately, I repeat that, we could
13 suggest until the cows come home it's the
14 mayor's call on if something is done or not
15 done, but my hope is that if the five of us
16 were to agree on something that the mayor
17 would heed our call, but he is responsible
18 for the employees. We basically, I know you
19 don't like hearing this, we have no say.
20 MR. TALIMINI: Well, then it's about
21 time the mayor start taking responsibility
22 for his job instead of for his future.
23 Now, secondly, last week you had a
24 bunch of armed banditos up here, I am firmly
25 for the Second Amendment of the
42
1 constitution, I just don't believe I want to
2 go into Tink's or into the coliseum or
3 anyplace elsewhere you got a bunch of loose
4 cannons carrying guns around you, and I
5 certainly don't think they belong in city
6 hall.
7 You know, it's paradoxical that
8 these people come up here and they say they
9 are absolutely not going to report a gun
10 lost or stolen. I wonder if these same guys
11 would report a television set that was just
12 stolen from their homes. And, you know, the
13 funny part of it is, I have watched this go
14 on not only here but in other areas. And,
15 you know, I pointed this cigarette all the
16 way around and I didn't see anybody duck for
17 cover, and yet you enacted a law against my
18 smoking, which incidentally was tossed or at
19 least it was on hold.
20 MS. FANUCCI: Not right now.
21 MR. TALIMINI: That's my point. You
22 are so concerned about my smoking, but
23 you're not the least concerned about 12 guys
24 coming in here with guns?
25 MR. COURTRIGHT: I don't think any
43
1 of us said we weren't concerned about it.
2 MS. FANUCCI: No.
3 MR. COURTRIGHT: I think we were all
4 concerned about it, I think we were all on
5 the verge of passing it, but there was legal
6 action being taken and I believe that's why
7 the bulk of it did not vote for it.
8 MR. TALIMINI: But that legal action
9 has nothing to do with these chambers. That
10 legal action has to do with the right to
11 carry a gun.
12 MR. COURTRIGHT: Any facility and,
13 Mr. Minora, correct me if I'm wrong, any
14 facility that posts a sign that you are not
15 allowed to carry weapons inside, as we could
16 do in this building, I would believe would
17 have to be in the bylaws.
18 MR. TALIMINI: I think it should be.
19 MS. FANUCCI: We actually met with
20 the police officers beforehand and we all
21 knew that there was not -- there was nothing
22 we could do because there is no legislation,
23 because there is --
24 MR. TALIMINI: Well, several months
25 ago you were ready to have a fit because
44
1 somebody was calling you names.
2 MS. FANUCCI: There were specific
3 threats then. Right now we had no threats,
4 people weren't saying anything.
5 MR. TALIMINI: I would like to know
6 where those threats came from.
7 MS. FANUCCI: Well, I'm not going to
8 dig that up, Mr. Talimini.
9 MR. TALIMINI: I know you're not
10 because you don't have any evidence of that.
11 MS. FANUCCI: Let that go.
12 MR. TALIMINI: Let's move onto the
13 next issue, please, if you don't mind. The
14 next issue is you have a homeless issue in
15 this town and, yes, I do, I see it everyday.
16 I listen to it on the scanner every night.
17 There are people around here who are
18 homeless. You see it on Wyoming Avenue, and
19 I agree with the gentleman, the shelters are
20 always full. They are always full. They
21 have turned away people on many occasions.
22 This is a fact. If you check your police
23 records you will find that it's a fact that
24 there are people who call in asking for
25 shelter and there is no shelter available.
45
1 Now, Bethel takes in anybody and
2 everybody and everybody when they are open,
3 but they have limited space. The one down
4 on the corner of Wyoming and Olive does the
5 same thing, but they have limited space.
6 There are women out there with children, I
7 see them in the daytime, I see them in the
8 evening and I feel sorry for a lot of them.
9 The food banks are hurting very
10 badly. The soup kitchen is hurting very
11 badly. Go down there some time and see the
12 lines of people who are being fed down
13 there. I mean, I grant you this, it's not
14 possible for you to go and see everything,
15 but I live in that area and I see it all of
16 the time and this is one of my biggest
17 gripes that I don't think your mayor or you
18 council people ever go out to see any of
19 this stuff, but you can always attend some
20 kind of a social --
21 MS. FANUCCI: I have been to four
22 shelters, I have been to -- would you like
23 to know where I've been? I mean, that's a
24 ridiculous statement.
25 MR. TALIMINI: Oh, would you please
46
1 stop interfering?
2 MR. MCGOFF: Thank you, Mr. Talimini.
3 MR. TALIMINI: I'm trying to make a
4 statement --
5 MR. FANUCCI: Sit down. Your bell
6 has rang, also.
7 MR. MCGOFF: Mrs. Fanucci, please.
8 MR. TALIMINI: My statement is a very
9 simple one and that --
10 MR. MCGOFF: Thank you, Mr.
11 Talimini--
12 MR. TALIMINI: I know you don't want
13 to hear it, Mr. McGoff, but you and your
14 mayor are both responsible as well. Thank
15 you.
16 MR. MCGOFF: Les Spindler.
17 MR. SPINDLER: Good evening, Council.
18 Les Spindler, city resident and taxpayer and
19 homeowner. I forget if it was last
20 Wednesday or last Thursday I was appalled
21 when I read the headline in the paper of raw
22 sewage being dumped in the Lackawanna River.
23 Scranton Sewer Authority dumped a billion
24 gallons, a billion gallons of raw sewage in
25 the Lackawanna River and nobody did anything
47
1 about this?
2 This just shows the incompetence as
3 I have been saying from the top down in this
4 administration from Ray Hayes to Chief
5 Elliott to Chief Davis to the Parking
6 Authority director to the Sewer Authority
7 director this is unconscionable that a
8 billion gallons of raw sewage could be
9 dumped into this river and I can't believe
10 anyone from the Lackawanna River Corridor
11 Association isn't in here complaining. I
12 can't believe I'm the only one complaining
13 about this. This is just a travesty and
14 Gene Barrett and everybody associated with
15 this should be arrested. To me, that's a
16 crime. If I so much as threw a tire in the
17 river I would be cited and fined for that
18 and these people dumped a billion gallons of
19 raw sewage in the river? It's just
20 unbelievable. And it's going to be probably
21 hundreds after billions of dollars in fines
22 and who is going to pay for it? Me and you,
23 the taxpayers. I can't believe people
24 aren't up here in an outrage.
25 And Gene Barrett called a lawsuit
48
1 unfair? No, Gene Barrett, what's unfair is
2 dumping a billion gallons of raw sewage in
3 the Lackawanna River. That was known since
4 I was a kid to be a polluted river, but it's
5 been cleaned up and now they go and do this,
6 this is an outrage and these people should
7 be arrested.
8 I usually don't mention names, but
9 since Mrs. Williams mentioned my name last
10 week I'll mention hers. She has been
11 complaining here for the last couple of
12 weeks that someone for running public office
13 has a criminal record. Well, I have it on
14 good authority is that criminal record is
15 someone had a beer in a college party and
16 had a traffic violation. Oh, my God.
17 Everybody hide your kids, lock your door.
18 Somebody had a beer and had a traffic
19 violation. If that's the best Chris Doherty
20 and Mrs. Williams can come up with to
21 discredit somebody they better try again
22 because that's just unbelievable. I don't
23 think anybody should be held out of holding
24 public office for those little things which
25 aren't even crimes.
49
1 And, oh, why doesn't Mrs. Williams
2 bring up things that are actual crimes like
3 the two city employees that are on videotape
4 stealing Gary DiBileo's signs which Chief
5 Elliott and Ray Hayes are sitting on the
6 reports or last year some time an 18 year
7 old fleeing in a car was stopped for a DUI
8 and his last name was Doherty and there was
9 nothing written up in the Doherty newsletter
10 about that. We don't hear Joanne Williams
11 bringing these things up.
12 This morning on talk radio, WILK,
13 there was a gentleman named Walter Griffiths
14 speaking and he's running for city
15 controller in Wilkes-Barre and he stated
16 what myself and many other people have
17 stated here, he said, "Cities trying to pay
18 off loans by refinancing loans are just
19 going to be betting in more debt."
20 We have been saying that for years
21 now. You can't pay off loans by
22 refinancing, refinancing, it's like paying
23 off one credit card with another credit
24 card, you are never going to get ahead.
25 Well, Mrs. Evans walked out so I'll
50
1 wait and talk to her next week maybe.
2 Lastly, I'm going to say it every
3 week until the election, Mayor Doherty
4 doesn't want to be our mayor. We need
5 somebody to get us out of this mess so if he
6 wants to be governor, resign now and on
7 November 4 -- November 3, in four weeks,
8 let's write somebody in that wants to be
9 mayor of our city that doesn't want to be
10 governor. Thank you.
11 MR. MCGOFF: Jean Suetta.
12 MS. SUETTA: I don't even get up to
13 the podium and he is laughing. I just gave
14 that Joe my number, I'll give that lady and
15 her kids a home.
16 MR. COURTRIGHT: That's nice of you.
17 MS. SUETTA: The bushes are -- oh,
18 wait a minute, my name is Jean Suetta, the
19 bushes are gone, but there are still the
20 ones at the end of Gardner Avenue. Ah, now,
21 they are -- there is the Japanese bamboo.
22 The other day I'm out working in the yard
23 and I heard a lady screaming. I go to help
24 her, I can't run because I got PAD, she
25 comes up, I says, "What's a matter?"
51
1 There was a man in there whacking
2 his wienie.
3 THE COURTRIGHT: Oh.
4 MR. MCGOFF: Please.
5 MS. SUETTA: All right, a serial
6 masturbation.
7 MR. MCGOFF: Oh, please, Jeannie.
8 That's enough.
9 MS. SUETTA: I went to see what he
10 was doing.
11 UNKNOWN AUDIENCE MEMBER: You can't
12 say that, Jeannie.
13 MS. SUETTA: Why can't I? It's not
14 dirty. It's not dirty. I could have told
15 you what the lady told me. You want me to
16 tell you what the lady said what he was
17 doing?
18 MR COURTRIGHT: No, no, no.
19 MR. MCGOFF: Please.
20 MS. GATELLI: I think you should let
21 her say it.
22 MR. MCGOFF: Jean.
23 MS. SUETTA: Yes, sir. Thank you for
24 getting the bushes down.
25 MR. MCGOFF: The bushes were down. I
52
1 was told that they were also removed, that
2 they removed some of the overgrown
3 vegetation from down in the old trucking
4 company.
5 MS. SUETTA: Yeah. Not much.
6 MR. MCGOFF: Well, I think they
7 removed what they could.
8 MS. SUETTA: Facing Gardener Avenue,
9 that was removed, too, Gardener Avenue.
10 They did it yesterday.
11 MR. MCGOFF: Yes.
12 MS. SUETTA: Yeah, because they knew
13 I would be down here today.
14 MR. MCGOFF: Well, they actually went
15 out Wednesday to look at it.
16 MS. SUETTA: It only took five
17 months, Bob, five months. And about the
18 sewer, them dumping all of the sewage in,
19 why should we have to pay for it, why not
20 the administration or the Sewer Authority
21 pay for it. Take their pays. They are
22 getting good enough money. Now if I'm going
23 to have people living at my house I need --
24 I can't be paying these bills. So, Sherry--
25 MS. FANUCCI: Don't look at me.
53
1 MS. SUETTA: And how about the Lace
2 Works?
3 MS. FANUCCI: I know, we are still --
4 MS. SUETTA: You know?
5 MS. FANUCCI: Yeah, we are still on
6 it.
7 MR. MCGOFF: The Lace Works is an
8 ongoing situation.
9 MS. SUETTA: Yeah. I know, but they
10 could clean the --
11 MS. FANUCCI: Yeah, your right.
12 MS. SUETTA: -- so people can walk,
13 you know. And that red house up on
14 Greenridge Street that Jimmy Stucker is
15 always complaining about, I looked at it
16 today. That's bad.
17 MS. FANUCCI: Yeah.
18 MR. MCGOFF: It's bad.
19 MR. COURTRIGHT: It's bad, Jean, and
20 I know it is.
21 MS. SUETTA: You can open that house
22 and put a homeless family in there.
23 MS. FANUCCI: No, we don't want --
24 MR. COURTRIGHT: Not that house.
25 MS. SUETTA: Well, it's better than
54
1 living in a tent.
2 MR. COURTRIGHT: I don't know about
3 that, that's A pretty bad that house.
4 MR. DWYER: They could fix it up.
5 MS. SUETTA: They could fix it up.
6 I have an echo. All right. Something else
7 I had to -- Bob you were supposed to call
8 me. Didn't you say last meeting, "Jeannie,
9 I will call you."
10 MR. MCGOFF: Yes.
11 MS. SUETTA: Didn't I give you my
12 phone number?
13 MR. COURTRIGHT: I told you he took
14 care of it.
15 MS. SUETTA: No, he was supposed to
16 call me on the telephone.
17 MR. MCGOFF: Jean, they did -- they
18 hadn't given me any resolution. They said
19 they would go look at it.
20 MS. SUETTA: You still should have
21 called me.
22 MR. MCGOFF: So I had nothing. You
23 just wanted to talk?
24 MS. SUETTA: Yeah.
25 MR. MCGOFF: Oh, I'm sorry.
55
1 MS. SUETTA: See, if you called me I
2 wouldn't have come up with that wiener.
3 Texas wiener.
4 MR. MCGOFF: Thank you.
5 MS. SUETTA: All right, that's it.
6 So they are going to get rid of the other
7 bushes so we don't have them Texas wieners?
8 MR. MCGOFF: I'll talk to them about
9 it.
10 MS. SUETTA: Who owns that?
11 MR. MCGOFF: I don't know.
12 MS. FANUCCI: I don't know. I don't
13 know who owns that.
14 MS. SUETTA: But don't you think
15 Corrugated Box would know who owns that?
16 MS. FANUCCI: Probably. Probably.
17 MR. SUETTA: I told you I was going
18 to come up and going to make you blush.
19 MR. COURTRIGHT: Then you wonder why
20 I laugh when you get out of your seat.
21 MS. SUETTA: You know, there was this
22 little boy in school.
23 MR. MCGOFF: Please.
24 MS. SUETTA: His name was Billy, and
25 you know how little boys sit and scratch
56
1 themselves.
2 MR. COURTRIGHT: Jeannie.
3 MS. SUETTA: That's not bad. The
4 teacher says, "Billy, what's wrong?"
5 And he says, "I was circumcised a
6 couple of days ago."
7 MR. MCGOFF: Jeannie, we are going --
8 MS. SUETTA: Jean, the dancing
9 machine. He went to the school nurse, he
10 come back, and he put it out and --
11 MR. MCGOFF: Jeannie, please.
12 MS. SUETTA: -- what are you doing?
13 He said, "My mother told me if I stuck it
14 out she would come pick me up." Goodnight.
15 MR. COURTRIGHT: Sit down, Jean.
16 MR. MCGOFF: This is bizarre.
17 MS. SUETTA: I'm not bizarre.
18 MR. MCGOFF: Ron Ellman.
19 MS. SUETTA: Now we got Ronnie coming
20 up.
21 MR. ELLMAN: I don't have nothing
22 imperative or necessary to talk about. I
23 guess I'll flap my gums until you tell me to
24 leave. I just have some things that
25 irritated me. My neighborhood is infested
57
1 with them quads. They are running day and
2 night and some of them don't have mufflers
3 on them and I hear them until 1:00 or 2:00
4 in the morning and I know where a couple of
5 them even live because I walk so much in the
6 neighborhood, but North Main Avenue is like
7 a racetrack and here they are going down
8 North Main and the side streets and the
9 beginning of the summer this little kid, I
10 don't know, he is 6, 7, 8 years old, he is
11 pushing a 250 cc two-wheeler, one of those
12 racing bikes, you know, the green ones, that
13 bike is capable of going pretty fast. He
14 was out of gas so I gave him a gallon of gas
15 and I'm talking to him and he is telling me
16 it goes 60, 70 miles an hour, just a little
17 kid like this, their parents are nuts.
18 MR. COURTRIGHT: You gave him gas?
19 MR. ELLMAN: My kids had them, but we
20 lived up in Madisonville and all, they
21 couldn't get in trouble with them. They
22 were out in the woods all the time getting
23 stuck, but North Main Avenue and Throop
24 Street and Parker Street, that's no place to
25 be racing those things.
58
1 In '95 one of them come across the
2 Parker Street and hit me year-old Cadillac
3 which made me very irritable. Knocked the
4 mirror off and scraped the side and kept
5 going and, you know, he is uninsured,
6 uninspected, they don't have good brakes
7 because I seen them skidding half a block
8 without stopping. You know, they are not
9 inspected or they just don't belong in the
10 streets. The owners should be heavily fined
11 and the dammed bikes confiscated and get
12 them on the streets. It's just -- somebody
13 is going to be hit. Yesterday that's what I
14 came up here, I forgot about it, I don't
15 know what time it was --
16 MR. COURTRIGHT: We can't chase them.
17 MR. ELLMAN: A little kid on a little
18 green one, he couldn't have been four or
19 five years old, but this little tiny green
20 one crossed Main Avenue.
21 MR. COURTRIGHT: Ron, you know what
22 the problem is?
23 MR. ELLMAN: Pardon?
24 MR. COURTRIGHT: The problem is they
25 are relatively smart, they know that the
59
1 police won't chase them.
2 MR. ELLMAN: Oh, I know that.
3 MR. COURTRIGHT: For fear of somebody
4 getting hurt, so they don't get chased and
5 the only thing you are going to be able to
6 do is if you know somebody that's doing it
7 and you know where they live report it to
8 the police then and they'll go to their
9 home.
10 MR. ELLMAN: I saw the police stop
11 right in front of my house and he took off
12 the other way and the police car goes this
13 way during it.
14 MR. COURTRIGHT: There is a heavy
15 fine, yeah.
16 MR. ELLMAN: Well, they ought to be
17 confiscated. You know, like I said, there's
18 a time and a place, I didn't come last
19 Tuesday because my big mouth might have got
20 me shot with them people with guns. I have
21 had guns, I like guns, you know, and I'm not
22 anti-gun, but there is a time and place and
23 a courthouse and a restaurant isn't the
24 place to walk around making a point about
25 carrying a gun. That was deplorable. I
60
1 think Mr. Bolus hit the nail on the head,
2 you know, you just don't bring guns to a
3 courthouse to make a point. I didn't hear
4 nobody be on their side talking. You know,
5 that's just a bad --
6 You know, last Tuesday -- last
7 Wednesday at 2:15 this the morning I took
8 Slugo out for a walk, I could tell he had to
9 go for his dancing around. Here come two
10 little girls, this is last Wednesday, 2:15
11 in the morning there's two young girls, I
12 don't know, about 12, 13, 14, they were both
13 little flat-chested things, you know, they
14 weren't too old, they were coming down the
15 sidewalk. You know, where are their parents
16 at allowing this and then somebody wonders
17 my kid did this and that, at least my kids,
18 you know, I had an idea where they were up
19 there in Moscow or Madisonville or
20 someplace, you know, and they would run out
21 of something to do before 2:15 in the
22 morning.
23 And I was listening about the
24 homeless, I talked to many, many of these
25 people and to me when your house burned down
61
1 you're homeless. When, you know, you are
2 disfunctional and don't work for society I
3 don't think homeless is the right word, but
4 this administration just shows disdain for
5 the poor, and these people they just need
6 help so bad. Miss Rosie and me have tried a
7 little bit on our own, we gave them blankets
8 and given them rides and stuff, but this is
9 a bad problem and it's going to be so bad
10 this winter with the way things are you
11 know. I wish there was more help for them.
12 Thank you very much.
13 MS. EVANS: Mr. Ellman, just to go
14 back to the ATV's for a second, there is a
15 city ordinance that prevents ATV's from
16 driving on city streets, but the police
17 encounter the problems that Mr. Courtright
18 already mentioned for you. I know possibly
19 two weeks I requested that the police patrol
20 the area of Main Avenue, Wells Streets,
21 Marvin, East Parker, because I had received
22 so many complaints.
23 MR. ELLMAN: This isn't a police
24 problem, there's lots of police in my
25 neighborhood. You know, it's like parking
62
1 on the sidewalk all over town. On the 2500
2 block of North Main there is people parked
3 with all four wheels on the sidewalk, the
4 police ticket them and ticket them and
5 ticket them, the next day they still sitting
6 there with tickets on it. They just don't
7 pay them or they got bogus license or
8 something. You know, like I said, it's not
9 a police problem, I'm not blaming the
10 police.
11 MS. EVANS: Well, in that matter with
12 the tickets eventually the car would be
13 towed if it has an illegal registration and
14 illegal plates, but I think Mr. Courtright
15 had a good response there when he said if
16 everyone who sees any ATV's in their
17 neighborhood knows exactly where that's
18 going, you know, in what home that belongs
19 and reports it. Naturally, children aren't
20 going to be able to pay a fine, but parents
21 certainly will and I think, you know, when
22 parents are held accountable and held
23 responsible for their children's actions
24 because it is the parents after all who have
25 supplied the ATV, and obviously paid for it,
63
1 they will be I think much more careful about
2 how their children are operating these
3 vehicles and it's really only for everyone's
4 good because we certainly don't want to see
5 those using the ATV's injured as well.
6 MR. ELLMAN: Well, you know,
7 insurance is required on them. They just
8 don't have it.
9 MR. MCGOFF: Thank you.
10 MR. ELLMAN: I have insurance on my
11 scooter it's only $75 a year for everything,
12 you know, these kids, like I said, they hit
13 my car and kept going. You can't chase
14 them, I can't turn around.
15 MR. MCGOFF: Thank you.
16 MR. ELLMAN: Thank you.
17 MR. MCGOFF: Vince Cruciani.
18 MR. CRUCIANI: Good evening, Council,
19 Vince Cruciani. I'm here to speak on a
20 matter regarding what I believe to be a
21 blatant gross violation of the United States
22 constitution occurring in the City of
23 Scranton. Before I touch on that matter I
24 would just like to briefly comment on two
25 items I heard earlier.
64
1 Many in the crowd had spoke against
2 the gun ordinances and I can understand if
3 others in council feels this way, too,
4 perhaps thought that the open display of
5 arms was a matter intimidation, but rather
6 it was quite the opposite. It was to show
7 that free men and women can stand in a room
8 bearing arms protecting themselves and not
9 use it in a derogatory manner. Now, one
10 gentleman earlier tried to analogize to the
11 smoking, well, I'm against prohibiting
12 restaurants from allowing smoking, I think
13 the free market will take care of that. I
14 don't think there is a constitionial
15 amendment to allow you to smoke.
16 Now, all I'm trying to say is that
17 people didn't come in here to bear their
18 arms to intimidate, they can in to show that
19 people can bear arms and law abide.
20 The issue of the homeless in the
21 city has been raised and one way I suggest
22 that revenue could be created is through the
23 taxation of the dormitory buildings in
24 private institutions. Let me explain. Let
25 me explain. Why do you have nonprofit
65
1 organizations tax exempt? One simple
2 reason, the theory is that the private
3 markets don't supply the demand. That's the
4 man reason that you have classroom and such
5 not taxed.
6 Now, what happens when you tax the
7 dorms? When you tax the dorms, even if they
8 are at a lower rate, okay, you know, I'm
9 just saying, when you derive revenue from
10 the dorms, right, what happens when you make
11 them tax free. Well, when you make them tax
12 free you are taking away a market demand
13 that is already being met by the private
14 sector. There are landlords who are paying
15 taxes who are filling the filling the
16 student housing need. Now, are people going
17 to come to build classrooms? No. But they
18 are going to build apartments. The private
19 sector is going to meet that demand and not
20 only do you hurt the tax base in the city,
21 but you hurt the students because if you
22 continue allowing the school to monopolize
23 the housing then the school is going to have
24 a distorted competition against the private
25 sector and then once they create the
66
1 monopoly status, which will happen, then
2 they are going to be able inflate the price
3 of housing to any degree they want. So my
4 suggestion is that any private school
5 housing and housing only be taxed.
6 Now, my most important issue. The
7 University of Scranton has a police force.
8 That police force can make arresting powers
9 in this city to students, sworn officers can
10 to not only students but any of you in this
11 room, anybody here, anybody walking down the
12 street. They have a religious symbol on
13 their uniform. Now, I know Mr. Minora
14 hasn't taken a Con-law class in quite
15 awhile, but I believe the constitution, the
16 doctrine or incorporation that brings the
17 First Amendment establishing laws applicable
18 to the states was around.
19 Now, let me explain what I mean.
20 I'm not saying that the police force does
21 not have legitimate authority to arrest,
22 what I'm saying is that the seal, the
23 University of Scranton crest with the cross,
24 the Christian cross, must be removed from
25 those uniforms of arresting officers. All
67
1 it has to say is "University of Scranton."
2 It doesn't -- I'm not saying that
3 it's illegitimate authority, I realize there
4 is statutory authority to have private
5 institutions have police forces, but I
6 recommend civil disobedience for any person
7 that is confronted off the University of
8 Scranton campus by these people, these
9 pretender police officers that have the
10 religious symbols, religious symbols. If it
11 was a crescent moon and the Star of David
12 how many of you would be comfortable? If it
13 was a Wicken symbol how many of you would be
14 comfortable? They have a cross on the
15 uniform and they can arrest. None of you
16 would stand for that police officer having a
17 cross on her uniform, but she can arrest
18 just the same way they can.
19 MR. COURTRIGHT: They can't.
20 MR. CRUCIANI: Yes, they can.
21 MR. COURTRIGHT: Only certain ones
22 can arrest.
23 MR. CRUCIANI: Yes, and they have the
24 University symbol, Mr. Courtright.
25 MR. COURTRIGHT: They need to be
68
1 certified by a State of Pennsylvania.
2 MR. CRUCIANI: And I'm not of
3 disagreement --
4 MR. COURTRIGHT: I believe, and I'm
5 guessing, I think they only have two or
6 three that can arrest.
7 MR. CRUCIANI: That's fine, but
8 those officers wear the cross, the Christian
9 cross, the Christian Catholic emblem on
10 their uniform and they have the power to
11 arrest. All I'm asking for that it be
12 replaced with a patch that says "The
13 University of Scranton."
14 Because there will be a 1983 suit
15 coming from the next person that gets arrest
16 by one of these officers with and Christian
17 emblem on them. I've called the ACLU, I
18 have called all of the magistrate's offices
19 about this because I'm not going to have
20 somebody with a Christian emblem be able to
21 arrest me. Now, if they want to have it
22 just the University of Scranton, fine. I
23 understand that. That's not a problem.
24 Anybody that can arrest that has a Christian
25 cross is illegitimate authority. Thank you.
69
1 MR. MCGOFF: David Dobrzyn.
2 MR. DOBRZYN: David Dobrzyn, resident
3 of Scranton. A member of the Taxpayers'
4 Association. You have heard a few different
5 opinions tonight on this business, I'm going
6 to keep it kind of general. I feel as a
7 Scranton citizen it would be wise to
8 withdrawal all attempts at redundant
9 legislation and mitigate any attempts to
10 exceed constitutional boundaries. Please
11 limit such two requests such as please
12 report your firearm, you don't have to make
13 in an ordinance, and definitely petition the
14 state for notification of all stolen
15 firearms. Personally, I think they should
16 be on the data bank, that's available to any
17 police officer if it was stolen in
18 Harrisburg if they kept somebody with
19 misusing a firearm and it turns out it's
20 stolen then it should be on some kind of
21 data base even possibly national, but my
22 fear is a patchwork of non-uniform
23 ordinances which make it impossible to obey
24 the law and all communities.
25 Now, here is an example, and it's
70
1 not related to guns at all. My wife worked
2 at a dry cleaners a few years ago and she
3 had just got through a state boiler
4 inspection and complied with all of the
5 requests of the state boiling inspector.
6 Well, a few months later in strolls the
7 Scranton boiler inspector and he disagreed
8 with the everything that was done to the
9 boiler at great expense. Well, they
10 couldn't operate for awhile and a few weeks
11 after that on Thanksgiving weekend, I
12 believe it was 1987 -- or '97, '97, I'm a
13 little old anymore, my wife's paycheck
14 started to bounce, seven in a row. I don't
15 know how he did it, but he actually engaged
16 in improprieties because he was going broke
17 over this patchwork of ordinances and so
18 forth and regulation.
19 Well, I eventually got that settled,
20 but now in Pennsylvania I don't know what
21 the penalty is for bounced checks, but in
22 Texas it's a felony to bounce a check. I
23 would have been responsible for about five
24 or six felonies. My life insurance bounced.
25 My rent check bounced. My payment to a
71
1 consumer on a consumer loan bounced.
2 Several others bounced. I got bopped $20
3 for each and every one, never reimbursed. I
4 mean, that's just an example of how these
5 patchwork of laws.
6 I personally feel like the state
7 should be responsible for this and, yeah, I
8 think people should be required to report
9 any kind of stolen firearms or what have
10 you. You shouldn't have a right to -- and I
11 also did state the week before that I
12 thought that somebody that felt obliged to
13 always have a firearm strapped to their
14 waist is a little squirrelly.
15 Now, on Scranton "U" I also had a
16 concern about that. You are walking down
17 the street and one of those officers walked
18 up to you and, I mean, are they -- do they
19 have all of the authority of the Scranton
20 policemen or, you know, because, I mean --
21 MR. COURTRIGHT: No, they don't.
22 MR. DOBRZYN: As far as I'm concerned
23 even though defending my house if they had
24 to kick my door in and yelled "Police" I
25 would sit in my chair and wait for them to
72
1 come in. I have no desire to ever hurt a
2 police officer even if he made a mistake and
3 got the wrong address, you know? I'm
4 telling them this is blah, blah, blah street
5 and not, you know, so with that possibly
6 would they have any right to search and
7 seize a citizen of Scranton or -- I mean,
8 can anybody else answer that for me?
9 MR. COURTRIGHT: I'll answer it
10 during the motions for you.
11 MR. DOBRZYN: Okay. I was concerned
12 about that, I just thought well, you know,
13 we elect people to hire the police
14 department and everything and it doesn't
15 happen, but please consider that what I made
16 mention about this, I think we have too much
17 of a patchwork of laws and it makes it
18 impossible to be a law respecting citizen
19 after a certain point. Have a good night.
20 MS. HUMPHRIES: Am I next?
21 MR. MCGOFF: Please, Phyllis, why
22 not. Your time has started and please no
23 props tonight.
24 MS. HUMPHRIES: Oh, there is going to
25 be props. You know, I thought about this,
73
1 when I was coming in I had so much that I'd
2 love to show. First, I want to say a hi to
3 everybody, God bless you all. I'm going to
4 read something and I do not want to be
5 stopped for these five minutes and then I'll
6 sit down.
7 The word of God on the City of
8 Scranton. The word of the Lord Jeremiah,
9 son of Hakium. Our priestly famines --
10 MR. MCGOFF: Phyllis, we don't quote
11 the Bible in --
12 MS. HUMPHRIES: Call of Jeremiah.
13 MR. MCGOFF: Please, Phyllis.
14 MS. HUMPHRIES: The word of the law
15 came to me just before I formed you in my
16 womb I knew you. Before I dedicated you a
17 prophet to nations. I appoint you. All
18 Lord God --
19 MR. MCGOFF: Phyllis --
20 MS. HUMPHRIES: -- I said --
21 MR. MCGOFF: Phyllis.
22 MS. HUMPHRIES: -- I know not how to
23 speak. I answer to you --
24 MR. MCGOFF: You are out of order --
25 MS. HUMPHRIES: -- but the Lord
74
1 answered me say not, I am too young.
2 MR. MCGOFF: -- constantly.
3 MS. HUMPHRIES: I am too young. Do
4 whatever I say you shall know. That's even
5 in the political arena.
6 (Whereupon Mr. McGoff bangs the
7 gavel several times.)
8 MR. MCGOFF: Phyllis, please stop.
9 MS. HUMPHRIES: Whenever I command of
10 you, you shall speak. Have no fear before
11 you --
12 MR. MCGOFF: This has generated
13 into --
14 MS. HUMPHRIES: -- because I am here
15 to deliver you, sayeth the Lord. Then the
16 Lord extended his hand and touched my mouth,
17 and I hope he touches every one of your
18 mouths, saying, see, I placed my word in
19 your mouth. This day I set you over nations
20 and over kingdoms to root up and to tear
21 down, to destroy and to demolish --
22 MR. MCGOFF: Phyllis.
23 MS. HUMPHRIES: -- to build and to
24 replant.
25 MR. MCGOFF: Phyllis.
75
1 MS. HUMPHRIES: I want to build the
2 City of Scranton. The word of the Lord came
3 to me with question.
4 MR. MCGOFF: Phyllis --
5 MS. HUMPHRIES: What did you see.
6 MR. MCGOFF: Your time is up.
7 MS. HUMPHRIES: Jeremiah, Isaiah, a
8 branch of the Washington. Okay, my time is
9 up?
10 MR. MCGOFF: Yes.
11 MS. HUMPHRIES: This is what I have
12 to say. I reply then the Lord said to me,
13 well, have you seen for I am watching to
14 fulfill my word. A second time the word of
15 the Lord came to me with a question, and you
16 know we question each other a lot, what do
17 you see? I see a boiling cauldron. I
18 replied that.
19 MR. MCGOFF: Phyllis, I'm going to
20 ask you one more time to leave --
21 MS. HUMPHRIES: And from the Lord
22 sayeth no more.
23 MR. MCGOFF: -- the podium.
24 MS. PHYLLIS: To me evil will boil
25 over upon all the dwelling of the land.
76
1 Know I many summoning all the kingdoms of
2 the north, sayeth the Lord. Each king shall
3 come and set up his throne and the kingdom
4 will come, the ambassadors to the City of
5 Scranton.
6 THE COURT: Phyllis, your time is up
7 and you are out of order.
8 MS. HUMPHRIES: It will never be up
9 until justice calls to the unborn child to
10 everyone here.
11 MR. MCGOFF: Phyllis. Phyllis.
12 MS. HUMPHRIES: Tomorrow is the
13 rosary of the blessed -- of our Lady of the
14 Rosary, number one.
15 MR. MCGOFF: I'm going to ask you one
16 more time to stop.
17 MS. HUMPHRIES: Number two, what I
18 have to say --
19 MR. COURTRIGHT: Phyllis, if you
20 don't step down we are going to call for a
21 recess. You have to step down.
22 MS. HUMPHRIES: Call for a recess.
23 Well, this is what I'm telling you. I'm
24 going to be running for city council.
25 MR. COURTRIGHT: Good.
77
1 MS. HUMPHRIES: And I'm not going to
2 ask for a penny because I think as a human
3 being --
4 MR. MCGOFF: Motion to recess.
5 MR. COURTRIGHT: Second.
6 MR. MCGOFF: All in favor. Aye.
7 MS. EVANS: Aye.
8 MS. FANUCCI: Aye.
9 MS. GATELLI: Aye.
10 MR. COURTRIGHT: Aye.
11 MR. MCGOFF: Opposed? The ayes have
12 it and so moved.
13 (A recess was taken)
14 MR. MCGOFF: Attorney Minora, do we
15 need to make a motion to go back it session
16 or?
17 MR. MINORA: I think just start
18 again.
19 MR. MCGOFF: Thank you. Our recess
20 is over. Next speaker. Anyone else?
21 MS. SCHUMACHER: Marie Schumacher,
22 resident and member of the Taxpayers'
23 Association. I would like to defend, I
24 hadn't planned to speak tonight and I do --
25 but I do have a question, several questions
78
1 about 7-A, but first I would be remiss if I
2 didn't say that I believe you acted
3 incorrectly in the case of Phyllis, that I
4 believe she has every right to do that. The
5 amendment says the state shall not establish
6 a religion and I would hope that it wouldn't
7 have to be taken to Court to decide which of
8 us is correct. A little tolerance, it's
9 five minutes would been more acceptable.
10 MS. FANUCCI: It's just against
11 council rules. It's against our own rules.
12 MS. SCHUMACHER: It's my time.
13 MR. MCGOFF: Please.
14 MS. FANUCCI: No, it's my time, too,
15 and it's against our rules as a council --
16 MS. SCHUMACHER: On 7-A.
17 MS. FANUCCI: -- and it's separation
18 of church and state and it's separation of--
19 MS. SCHUMACHER: Is the source of the
20 money of this authority -- excuse me, do I
21 have the floor?
22 MR. MCGOFF: Please. Continue.
23 MS. SCHUMACHER: Is the source of the
24 public money that's given to this Scranton
25 Lackawanna County Health and Welfare
79
1 Authority, what is the source of their
2 funding?
3 MR. MCGOFF: I'm sorry?
4 MS. SCHUMACHER: What is the source
5 of the funding for the Scranton Lackawanna
6 Health and Welfare Authority? Where do they
7 get their money? I believe someone -- I'm
8 sorry, I did not have a chance to come in
9 and read the backup on this, but I believe
10 someone said this is to be a $6 million
11 loan. I would like to know where the source
12 of the money they get that they -- they have
13 enough money to lend this $6 million or if
14 it's a grant I don't even know if it's a
15 grant, and how much will remain in their
16 coffers after this loan is made and I would
17 also like to know if anyone other than
18 nonprofits are eligible to get grants or
19 loans from this fund? And I will wait for
20 your -- I mean, I'll take your answers now.
21 Thank you. Anybody?
22 MR. MCGOFF: I do not know.
23 MS. EVANS: I don't know the answer,
24 but I will try to find the answers for all
25 of us.
80
1 MS. SCHUMACHER: But, I mean, I
2 think it's -- it's silly to vote on
3 something, you don't know if you are wiping
4 out their whole thing, you don't know where
5 they get their money, I mean -- but, thank
6 you.
7 MR. MCGOFF: Any other speakers?
8 MS. KRAKE: First of all, I would
9 like to say that Phyllis was correct in
10 being able to wanting to speak about what
11 she wanted to speak, she has freedom of
12 speech just like everyone else in the United
13 States of America and so does Mrs. Williams
14 for that matter, but I would like to rebut
15 some of the remarks she has made. I know
16 what Mrs. Williams is getting at the past
17 few weeks, the law is clear on minor
18 violations and such a minor violations does
19 not prohibit someone from running for
20 office. Mrs. Williams saying these things
21 is just another example of her being used by
22 the administration, used by them to sling
23 mud at the same people for the mayor's
24 checks and balances. It's not surprising
25 that the mayor would stoop so low once again
81
1 to somehow get his way since he has done
2 this before.
3 I truly sometimes feel sorry for
4 Mrs. Williams since she is being used as a
5 pawn once again for Doherty, since his
6 rubber stamp council was soundly and
7 overwhelmingly rejected by the voters. Mrs.
8 Williams opens a Pandora's box with her
9 allegations. You can't ask for rules or
10 laws for some and not want or expect them to
11 apply to everyone. As a taxpayer, Mrs.
12 Williams should be much more concerned by
13 the real issues, the issues that are truly
14 hurting the residents and taxpayers.
15 Why doesn't Mrs. Williams have any
16 concern about the last 25 percent tax
17 increase? Why no concern about the
18 $12 million that is missing in the Scranton
19 Tax Office? Why no concern that Ken
20 McDowell never cooperated with his subpoena
21 from city council? Why no concern that the
22 Scranton Tax Office still has not released
23 the over $4 million owed to the city and
24 without it there will be a huge budget whole
25 in the 2009 budget. Why? Because these are
82
1 crucial issues that are ongoing. These are
2 not city council election issues, but since
3 she is only interested in election-time
4 subjects why is not outraged that the mayor
5 she supports no longer wishes to be mayor of
6 Scranton? Why isn't she concerned that he
7 fails to perform his duties and
8 responsibilities as mayor while he campaigns
9 statewide to become governor?
10 A few more remarks I have.
11 Mr. Courtright is running for tax collector.
12 Hopefully he will win and that would help
13 the citizens tremendously when he has that
14 office. Mrs. Evans, who wins her elections
15 with thousands and thousands of more votes
16 than even the mayoral candidates, continues
17 to be a voice for all of the people. Time
18 again she votes for the good of all and is
19 preserved in the face of many council that
20 voted exactly opposite for the people.
21 Thank you.
22 MS. FRANUS: Fay Franus, Scranton.
23 Good evening, Council. As council well
24 knows, a serious concern of all taxpayers is
25 unjust expenditures. Unjust expenditures
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1 involving a council person who voted for tax
2 increases inherently raised judgment and
3 ethical issues. Unjust spending is properly
4 judged on the backs material to the
5 expenditure. Without question, the invoices
6 speak for themselves and an expenditure of
7 $30,000 for legal work is one that merits
8 close examination for it's legal
9 appropriateness.
10 Since the time that Mrs. Gatelli
11 filed a counterclaim against Joe Pilcheski
12 she repeatedly denied for over a year that
13 the city's insurance company was not paying
14 for private legal services. Then two months
15 ago it was publically disclosed that the
16 city's insurance company was billed $52,473
17 for Gatelli related legal services and, in
18 fact, 30,000 were then paid to Attorney
19 Reihner.
20 The questions beg asking. Was all
21 of the 30,000 paid by the city's insurance
22 company for defending Mrs. Gatelli as a
23 public official or did Mrs. Gatelli get her
24 private legal services paid for by the city?
25 The answer is found in the legal invoices
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1 which are undisputable in a comprehensive
2 source precisely, how many hours were worked
3 and what legal work was provided for each of
4 these hours.
5 Attorney Reihner's invoices revealed
6 that his office logged in a total of
7 777.6 hours representing Mrs. Gatelli's
8 interests beginning on April 19, 2007, and
9 continuing up to December 23, 2008, but they
10 also reveal that only the first 16 hours
11 were for representing Mrs. Gatelli as a
12 public official and the remaining 761 hours
13 for advancing her private counterclaim.
14 Translated that means that only
15 2.2 percent of the hours were for
16 representing Mrs. Gatelli as a public
17 official and 97.8 percent were for
18 representing her as a private citizen.
19 Translated, of the $30,000 paid to
20 Attorney Reihner, $28,700 obviously went to
21 Mrs. Gatelli's personal and private benefit.
22 During last week's council meeting
23 when this issue was again mentioned,
24 Mrs. Gatelli again adamantly denied that the
25 city taxpayers are footing the bill for her
85
1 private lawsuit, but if that is true why is
2 the city's insurance company paid $28,700 to
3 Attorney Reihner for private legal services?
4 More appropriately, why is Attorney Reihner
5 billing the city's insurance company at all
6 for Mrs. Gatelli's private legal services?
7 There is a current balance of $22,473. Who
8 is going to pay that balance since it is all
9 attributed to Attorney Reihner representing
10 Mrs. Gatelli as a private citizen?
11 How could Attorney Reihner be
12 confused as to who would pay him for
13 representing Mrs. Gatelli as a private
14 citizen or was there no confusion? Did